Topic: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Not so very long ago, nobody could touch Roger Federer.  Couldn't tie his shoes.  His wonderful play forced those who would be great to learn to play at a level never seen before in the game -- and they did.  People like to say that the level of Federer's game has dropped.  I don't think that's true.  Roger played the two best clay court matches of his life at Roland Garros this year and lost the tournament doing so.  He's every bit as great as he ever was, but now when guys like Nole and Rafa and Murray and Del Potro beat him, it's really no surprise.  When Berdych or Soderling do it, it's surprising only because they lack the consistency of that first group of guys.  The level of the quality of play in men's tennis rose to meet the challenge of Federer.

But then came Rafael Nadal.  The incredible amount of spin he gets on the ball, the way he fights for every point as though everything were riding on it, his extraordinary physical conditioning, his strength and speed around the court -- all these things gave Rafa an edge over everyone.  When he improved his backhand, serve and net game to go with his imposing physicality, he lifted the game to a new level, like Federer before him.  And, just as with Roger before him, those who would be great started looking for ways to beat him.  Until this year, no one did that with any frequency or consistency.

Novak Djokovic used to be one of those who just couldn't hang with Rafa physically.  Like Andy Murray, Nole without question has always had a game with the potential to trouble Rafa.  But he had breathing problems, was not in anywhere near as good shape as Rafa, and was subject to mental meltdowns.  All that is in the past.

I guess we have to admit his change in diet has had a major impact on Nole's fitness.  Overcoming the allergies and breathing problems allowed him to take his fitness to a new level -- and his game along with it.  A couple of years ago, the idea of someone winning most of the long rallies against Rafa was laughable.  Not now. 

Nole was always about as fast around the court as Rafa.  Now he's considerably faster than anyone who ever played the game IMO.  As usual, with the greatly improved fitness came greater consistency as well.  And with that came confidence.  And with the confidence came increased aggression, so much so that Nole is now as good or better than Rafa at defense and is actually even better than Rafa in transitioning from defense to offense.

Nole's serve this year is very greatly improved and has gone from a weakness to one of his best weapons.  His return game was already great, but is now better for the reasons stated above.  Perhaps most impressive, to me at least, is the way his point by point competitiveness has improved.  He no longer weakens mentally.  Like Rafa, he now gives nothing away.

Put all that together, and you are seeing tennis at a level that had never been imagined 3 years ago, much less played.  Let me say that more clearly.  No one in the history of tennis has ever played the game at the level Novak Djokovic is playing this year.  Period.  By a bunch.  The bar has been raised yet again. 

So it's back to the drawing board for Rafa Nadal.  He found a way by rise to the challenge of Federer and beyond.  We shall see whether he can do the same with this newer, more difficult challenge.  But one thing is for sure: now everyone will be looking for a way to beat Nole, just as they did only a few years ago with Roger.  And someone will succeed.  Maybe more than one someone.  And because of the challenge Nole has thrown down to the rest of the world, the quality of men's tennis will continue to rise, unimaginable as that may be to us right now.

In the meantime, the guy playing the best tennis ever continues to rise.  If he stays healthy, he may be the guy who, in a few years, everybody agrees is the greatest ever -- or maybe not.  But credit where it's due: on his best day, Roger Federer never played tennis like Novak Djokovic played today.  Neither has Rafa Nadal.

Don't get me wrong: I've been a Rafa guy all the way, I'm still a Rafa guy all the way, and I'm going to be a Rafa guy all the way to the end of the story.  I trust that he and uncle Toni will figure out the answer to this puzzle, too.  But at the moment, no one in the world has an answer to Nole.

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Wow that's a very insightful and interesting read there Don!
I must say that it is good to see you give credit where credit is due regarding Nole's form in 2011, that's the mark of a true tennis fan IMO. Novak has dominated like no other person ever has so far this year, if he continues to dominate for most of the season left then his achievement will be truly remarkable. In the 2nd set of the final he made Rafa look like a 2nd or 3rd round opponent and it wasn't as if Nadal was playing poorly either, Novak quite literally just blew him off the court in that set, something I have never seen when Rafa has been playing such an important match.
I agree with you on almost everything that you say (I usually do on most things) but have to disagree with you on just one comment, I believe at their very best Roger and Rafa have also been just as good as Nole maybe even better, we are in different times and the tennis is evolving to a new level I agree thanks mainly to Roger and then Rafa and now Novak, and your right, someone or a couple of someone's will come along and keep raising the bar, I do understand what you are saying but it's like trying to decide the best ever player in history, there a quite a few variables, the main one being if Roger wasn't so damn good in the first place would Rafa have become as good as he is and likewise for Novak too.
We are certainly being spoilt I know that much with this level of tennis, are we know witnessing 3 of the greatest players of all time playing in the same era?? I think that perhaps we are which is great for all lovers of the game like us smile
Is it too soon to say that Novak owns Rafa?? Maybe not bcoz he seems to be owning everyone at the moment huh!
Djokovic is gonna be awfullly tough to beat at Flushing Meadows that's all I can say!

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Tono_Yoda_Cup_Champion wrote:

Is it too soon to say that Novak owns Rafa?? Maybe not bcoz he seems to be owning everyone at the moment huh!
!


He's 5-0 this year against Nadal in finals on all three surfaces, I hate to say this but I think the way It's looking Nadal's only chance is for Novak to regress - mental breakdowns, becoming easily frustrated.  Good assessment Don.  Djokovic has shown this potential for a few years, and now It's all finally coming to fruition.  Frankly, if the draw comes aligned, I would like to see a Federer-Djokovic U.S. Open final.  Federer has beaten him recently, and if it waa Nadal against Djokovic, I'm not sure it would be competitive.  A lot has changed in less than a year, eh?

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Rafa will definitely regroup, retool and come back with changes designed to work against Nole.  I promise you. 

Until this year, it would have been fair to say that Rafa owned Nole on clay and grass.  He was WAY better and Nole simply had very little chance against him except on hard courts. 

Rafa hasn't slipped much since last year, when he won 3 slams.  Nole is just that much better than what he was.  You don't own somebody by one year's results.  Maybe Rafa will respond, maybe not.  We'll see.

But the fact that Rafa hasn't slipped much from last year, together with Nole's ridiculous record of dominance over everyone all year (EVERYONE is 0-something against Nole this year except Fed, who is 1-4), are the reasons I say Nole is playing the best of anyone, ever.  Rafa says -- and Johnny Mac agrees -- that Rafa is playing better tennis now than he was at the time of the '08 Wimbledon final, the greatest match ever played, according to most.  In that match, Rafa beat arguably the best grass court player of all time (or was it Borg or Sampras?) when that guy was playing his best.  Rafa is a more complete player now.  And Nole today was clearly better than Rafa on grass -- which had previously been Nole's worst surface.   

I really think the bar has been raised in a fairly dramatic way.

Last edited by DonDenman (Jul. 3, 2011 7:51pm)

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Don,I realy must say tahat your post is like writen from my head,and all of my friends think that way.The main thing in  evolution of Novak's game is his phisical impuvment.His new doctor has made an incredible job with that diet and alergies.And about the game I can say that his domination over Nadal in the long rely's is just impressive!With his great mouvment,and great shots he's sanding ball's with such ease to his backhand and break's him one way or the other.His "head" is impressive too.Both the mental strainght in the decisive moments and especialy his shot selection.There can be said much more about  his great game.And you said much of it.I agree about Federer too.He is dominating every aponent exept Nole and Rafa.He is beating guys like Rodick,Monfis,Wawrinka...with the same ease like ever before.But this two are just beter,new generation.And that's normal.Tennis is impruved and will...

Last edited by Guga (Jul. 4, 2011 6:12am)

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

As the bar is raised, the level of men's tennis is raised and WE are benefited more than the tennis players are. The game of tennis becomes more exciting to watch, the players become better. The style of the game changes eg. the serve and volley, not many players play like that anymore. Tennis is a better game than it was before and will continue to be better - much to the delight of fans.

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

The problem though, is that while Andy, Nole, Roger, Rafa are fighting it out on the top, improving their game, only they are raising the bar. I would like to see more of the other player 'up the ante' such as Monfils (my favourite player, very charismatic), Berdych (needs to be more consistent on all courts), Roddick (can he get back to his former glory?), Gasquet (we're seeing a new Richard this year, a slightly more consistent one), Melzer (we know he has the potential to be a 'giant-killer'), Wawrinka (hiding in the Swiss shadows of Roger, my favourite backhand in the game) and many others.

And also the young players rising up such as Tomic who proved that age is no barrier.

We seem to always talk about the Big 4, Andy, Roger, Nole, Rafa as if they're "gods" but if Soderling can become more consistent and play at higher levels all the time(we know he can), the Big 4 could quite possibly become the Big 5.

All in all, we have an exciting generation of tennis ahead of us.

Last edited by CrossCourt (Jul. 5, 2011 2:40am)

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

The big question about Roger though, is can he raise his game once more before he leaves the sport for good? Possibly another GS under his name?

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

I see Fed winning Oz Open and making it to the finals of the ATP WT Finals. Hopefully he can because that would be a fitting conclusion to the Legend of Roger Federer.

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Possibly a couple of those tourneys that come after, BNP Paripas etc.

11

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Tono Yoda Cup Champion wrote:

if Roger wasn't so damn good in the first place would Rafa have become as good as he is and likewise for Novak too

IMO, no way in the world.

Also, I really don't put Murray on Roger's level, or Roger on Rafa's level, or at present Rafa on Nole's level.  They aren't.  There are pretty good gaps between them right now.  I think Murray and Rafa will both improve their games dramatically in response, unless Murray becomes discouraged and goes away, which could happen.  I don't see Fed improving his game much.

Soderling and Berdych are really very much alike.  On their day, they will blow you off the court, whoever you are, but they find it hard to sustain their best tennis through three sets, much less five.  They will have to become far more consistent to challenge regularly.  But they are also far, far less mobile than any of the top 4.  Speed kills.

Tsonga's variety and athleticism mean he has great potential.  So does Monfils.  So, for that matter, does Gasquet, though less.  But they are French, and most French players are a lot alike.  They try glory shots.  They don't train all THAT hard.  They get down.  Their minds wander.  I don't know why.  I love the French.  I wish I lived in Paris.  But I don't see any of them getting into top physical condition or ever playing consistently enough to break into the top ranks.  I hope they do, one and all of them.

Del Potro, of course, belongs in the conversation as part of the top 5 if he gets all the way back.  He has not yet, quite, but he will.

The kids are another story.  Raonic has the best serve in the game, I think.  Tomic makes everybody play bad.  It's a real gift.  Gilbert used to do it.  Ryan Harrison has a ton of potential.  But the best of group is Grigor Dimitrov IMO.  They're all very talented and young.

No reflection on Rafa that I've returned to my Rafter pix.  Vamos, Rafa!  Win it back!!!

But at the end of the day, Pat Rafter is still my favorite player of all time.  Sorry, mate!

Last edited by Don (Jul. 4, 2011 12:51am)

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Don wrote:
Tono Yoda Cup Champion wrote:

if Roger wasn't so damn good in the first place would Rafa have become as good as he is and likewise for Novak too

I think Murray and Rafa will both improve their games dramatically in response, unless Murray becomes discouraged and goes away, which could happen.

A Bjorn Borg replay perhaps? That would break the heart of all GBR fans.

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

The whole darn country is on the poor guy's shoulders.  It's a heavy weight to carry, I surmise.

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

What do you all say about Djoković sliding on the grass almost like it's a clay court?Is that an improvement or what?Certainly it was never seen before.

Last edited by Guga (Jul. 5, 2011 8:34am)

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

I think when we're talking about putting players on other player's "levels," we're missing an important part of what makes tennis great: the unique individuality of every player.
You see, everyone is saying "Novak is above ALL players!" but really, amongst the top 4 especially, he's only barely hovering over them.  He has lost this year, to Federer, and really SHOULD have lost to Murray.  However, both Fed and Murray have lost multiple times to Nadal who, as we all know, hasn't really even sniffed a victory against Novak.  So actually, in that light, Murray and Federer have had more success against this so-called "best player" than Nadal, and yet Nadal has beaten both Murray and Federer.

Do you see what I mean?  Tennis is not really a #1, #2, #3, #4 sport right now, it actually more closely resembles a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, at least at the top of the men's game.

-Arvis

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Actually, I totally disagree.  But for Djokovic, Rafa would have won Wimbledon yet again, the last 3 he played in -- and probably all 4 of the other tourneys where he lost to Nole in the finals as well.  He'd be so far ahead of everybody else it would be ridiculous.  Rafa routinely beats up on everybody but Nole.  I think you're giving Fed too much credit for one match, though the RG victory over Nole was impressive, no doubt.  And Murray is clearly the weak sister of the top 4 at this point.

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

To each his own, I suppose.  I agree in general with what you're saying, but I still wonder how a Fed/Novak or Murray/Novak semi would have gone down.  I suppose that's useless to think about, though.

-Arvis

18

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Actually, Tsonga is the guy with the best record against Nole of anybody (5-2 before this year's Wimbledon), so Nole beat his toughest opponent, based on past matches, and beat him convincingly. 

Nole also still has a losing record to Fed (14-9) and of course Fed is the only one to beat him this year, so that would have been an attractive match up as well. 

Against Murray, Nole is 6-3.  Not such a good match up.  You saw how Murray responded to a little adversity against Rafa -- and how Nole responded after Rafa took the third set 6-1.  I think Nole would have blistered Andy, personally.

Last edited by Don (Jul. 5, 2011 1:22pm)

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Don wrote:

Against Murray, Nole is 6-3.  Not such a good match up.  You saw how Murray responded to a little adversity against Rafa -- and how Nole responded after Rafa took the third set 6-1.  I think Nole would have blistered Andy, personally.

Probably. But I still would have liked to see it. wink

Tsonga can't seem to beat Novak in Grand Slams...

-Arvis

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Don wrote:

Tsonga's variety and athleticism mean he has great potential.  So does Monfils.  So, for that matter, does Gasquet, though less.  But they are French, and most French players are a lot alike.  They try glory shots.  They don't train all THAT hard.  They get down.  Their minds wander.  I don't know why.  I love the French.  I wish I lived in Paris.  But I don't see any of them getting into top physical condition or ever playing consistently enough to break into the top ranks.  I hope they do, one and all of them.

Monfils is no.7 in the world, which is a career high ranking but that's more due to the faults of Berdych (relegated to no.9) than to the successes of La Monf.

Tsonga deservedly climbed up to no.12.

Gasquest made a small ascension up as well.

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

After Ferrer, people seem to move around a fair amount.

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

It would be slightly more interesting if the top 5 moved about amongst each other but that rarely happens.

Soderling managed to pass Andy M at Australia by winning a tournament in Brisbane. He became the no.4 in the world for about a two weeks before Andy made it to the finals of the Oz Open, regaining that 4th spot. Nadal and Nole switched but that's about it.

For God's sake, the last time the top 2 in the world were not Rafa or Fed was in February 2004 (Roddick).

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

I agree wholeheartedly that the quality of men's tennis is through the roof right now. That said, I have a hard time agreeing that Fed's game has not dropped. That would mean a couple things to me.

1. Andy Murray, Novak Djokovic, del Po and guys who have been getting the best of Fed lately on a regular basis are better than he ever was.

2. Guys like Marat Safin, Lleyton Hewitt, Andy Roddick, Juan Carlos Ferrero and Carlos Moya, who have been #1, won a 'Slam and who Fed dominated weren't that good.

3. Fed should not have won 16 'Slams.

24

Re: ...and the quality of men's tennis just keeps on going up!

Delpo hasn't been getting the best of Fed lately.  They haven't played since '09, and that year Fed won 3 of 5 meetings.  Fed is 6-2 overall against Delpo. 

Murray and Fed haven't played this year.  Last year they played 4 times and split, with Fed winning the more important matches.  Murray is ahead of Fed 8-6 overall.  Murray is a tough match up for Fed (and for a lot of people).  That doesn't mean he's better than Fed.  He's not as good.  That's why Fed's ranked comfortably above him.  Likewise, Fed has been a bad match up for people like Roddick and Hewitt and many others.  That doesn't mean they at their best were worse than Murray is and has been. 

That's a very sophistical line of reasoning IMO.

Last edited by Don (Jul. 6, 2011 5:12pm)