Topic: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Geez what has happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?
Serena has been out for almost one whole year and in her 2nd competitive match back she almost topples Zvonareva, the 2nd ranked player in the world. Is she the player to beat again at Wimbledon?
Even Venus is brushing aside her opponents at the moment too, I know the William's girls are very talented but one would think it would take at least a few tourny's before they start becoming a real threat again.
Maybe it won't due to the lack of depth in the women's game, for all that it's great to see them back and hopefully there presence will make the other women all lift their game too.
Looking forward to SW19 smile

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Normal women can't deal with all that muscle.

Anyways, personally I find the women's game more interesting without the Williams sisters.  They're boring, they win everything, it was old ages ago.  Although I admit, I am always excited when somebody beats the Williams sisters.  It always feels like somebody did the impossible.

-Arvis

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Let's call it like it is.  Serena has come into several previous slams overweight or obviously out of shape, having played little or not at all, and she's always the person to beat.  Usually no one does.  I see her as one of the favorites -- probably THE favorite.  She's a great athlete, even better competitor, and she is very obviously more powerful than everyone else.  She is an intimidating presence on court to most players.

However, Venus is ALWAYS tough on grass, and I don't think we should rule out Zvonareva, Sharapova, Kvitova or Li as potential champion this year.

Much as I like Petko and Bartoli, I don't see them as potential winners this year. 

Certainly not Woz or Franzi or Sam. 

Azarenka or Radwanska or both could go deep, too, but I don't see them winning it this year.

Last edited by DonDenman (Jun. 17, 2011 4:04pm)

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

I don't think Schiavone can really play on grass.  It seems like all it takes to beat her on grass is a decent pusher, and the WTA is rife with those.  But maybe she'll prove me wrong.

I think Li is the most likely to make the final here, which would be amazing.  She went deep here last year, and she is arguably a better player this year.  For her to make three Grand Slam finals in a row would be no small accomplishment.

-Arvis

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

I didn't take her on my team, even though her quarter's soft, but Franzi did make the quarters at Wimbledon '09.  She's a different player the last couple of years -- because she can get so much more spin with the new strings, I believe.  So I think she has a decent shot to make the quarters.  Of course, she could also lose in the first or second round.

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

I actually think there's a good chance Jelena Dokic could beat Schiavone in the first round!

-Arvis

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Dokic has never lost to Schiavone.  It's why I said she could lose in the first round. 

Even if she beats Jelena, Franzi could lose in the second round to Zahlavova Strychova. 

Personally, I hope she comes through those matches.  I think the third round would be easier -- and in all likelihood the R16 match will be either the Petko/Arn winner or a qualifier IMO.  So this is a very, very soft portion of the draw.   

But the first round match was sufficient for me not to consider her for my team.

I suppose that makes Dokic a high risk/reward pick as an unseeded player on your team.  High risk because Schiavone is a tough first round match and there is a penalty for first round losses.  High reward, because the Dokic/Schiavone winner will probably make it at least to R16.

Last edited by DonDenman (Jun. 17, 2011 3:56pm)

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

I think the depth is fine. The problem to me is there really aren't too many women out there with the killer instinct needed to dominate the game. Venus, Serena, Justine, Clijsters, Sharapova and even Kuznetsova at times are good examples of that fire, that constant hunger if you will. We thought back in 2007 Ivanovic and Jankovic were going to dominate, didn't happen. It's clear they don't have that extra drive required. People thought Safina could be the next big thing. She seems to have the drive, but the bright lights are just too much for her. Wozniacki and Zvonareva are now pretty highly regarded. Wozniacki doesn't have the kind of game to dominate IMO and I don't think Zvonareva has that extra gear.

The bottom line is the game really misses Justine and it will be a free-for-all when Serena, Venus and Clijsters retire for good. What you are left with is 10+ women with a good chance to win any given 'Slam. There is certainly some depth in the women's game, just not too many players seem to have the fire needed to take their game to the ultimate level. Sharapova could be the main beneficiary of said players retiring in the next couple years as long as she gets her serve problems corrected.

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Sharapova's serve is better than it has been in years.  Having said that, she is probably still vulnerable to losing it mentally if she has a bad serving day.

I think you're underestimating Kvitova big time.  We'll see.

Last edited by DonDenman (Jun. 17, 2011 9:21pm)

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

The men's game has great depth IMO, any of the top 50 and sometimes even the top 100 can topple the big boys on any given day, the same can't be said for the women IMO, if any of the lower ranked players do beat the top women, it's usually because the top players are not really worried about losing or carrying an injury.
It's true Aiur that any of about 10 women could win a Slam at the moment but does that mean there is great depth in Women's Tennis?? I think not!
Hopefully there will be several American, Russian and European ladies coming through the ranks to create some great rivalries in the future, I think that's what the women's game is lacking... a Navratilova/Evert/Graf type rivalry.

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Part of it is that there's only one really dominant player in women's tennis and she rarely plays.  It confuses everyone. 

I think Kvitova is the next dominant player.

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Hope you are right about Petra there Don, starting with her 1st Wimbledon Title smile

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Tono100 wrote:

The men's game has great depth IMO, any of the top 50 and sometimes even the top 100 can topple the big boys on any given day, the same can't be said for the women IMO, if any of the lower ranked players do beat the top women, it's usually because the top players are not really worried about losing or carrying an injury.
It's true Aiur that any of about 10 women could win a Slam at the moment but does that mean there is great depth in Women's Tennis?? I think not!
Hopefully there will be several American, Russian and European ladies coming through the ranks to create some great rivalries in the future, I think that's what the women's game is lacking... a Navratilova/Evert/Graf type rivalry.

Sure, the men have a ton of depth from 1-100+. The women's game doesn't have nearly that amount, but it's not like the top 10 players are rock solid and just beat up on everyone else. Ana Ivanovic and Jelena Jankovic, #1 players from a few years ago are ranked 18 and 15 respectively. Dinara Safina, another former #1, was out of the top 100 for awhile and might be back down there after this latest injury problem. Flavia Pennetta, Daniela Hantuchova, Nadia Petrova, Anna Chakvetadze and Jelena Dokic are all players outside the top 20 who were once top 10 players. I think the depth is there, and there is a potential for several players (including Kvitova like Don mentioned) to surpass the level of very good and reach greatness. So yea, I think the depth is there, just not the consistency.

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

...which is how we wind up (very temporarily, I pray) with a #1 whose entire game is based on you beating yourself...

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

I don't know, Don.  Go back to Wozniacki's win over Sharapova in the US Open last year.  That was a statement win and it showed that Caroline CAN play more aggressively and can even generate some power.  The problem is she wears herself out with the scheduling.  She needs to keep herself fresh.  And yes, she needs to push less.  She and Andy Murray have a lot in common.

I think by age 22 Caroline will be an even better player than she is now.  She's just been so "good" for so long we forget how young she is and how much more growing she can still do.

-Arvis

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Good point.  She may not ALWAYS be a player who relies solely on her opponent beating herself -- but right now that's her only tactic in virtually all her matches, no changes, win or lose.  And she's been winning like that half her life or more, so it's hard to change. 

However, it's really a question of coaching IMO.  She's a big enough girl that if she got stronger, improved her serve and played with a LOT more power, she might be something grand.  But I do not see her father taking her there, do you?

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Woz is probably the cutest No.1 we have had for a while anyway, can she keep improving....probably, will she improve and win numerous Slams.... hmmm... good question!
In response to Aiur, you are right about the consistency with the women, guess we will have to agree to disagree about the level of depth though, there are a number of very good younger players on the scene currently, now all we need is for several of them to step up and create exciting rivalries with one another, I'm with Don.... Pet Nuts beyond 2012! smile

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Seems to me the reasons that women's tennis is so wide open now are that, with Clijsters gone and Serena playing so rarely, there is no truly dominant player, combined with the failure of the younger players to step up in majors so far. 

In the 6 slams since the beginning of last year, the two-time winners are Serena and Clijsters.  The other two are Schiavone and Li Na, both of whom are older than Clijsters. 

The two-time finalists have been Schiavone (now 30), Serena (29), Li Na (29), Clijsters (28) and Zvonareva (26, the "kid" of the group, who lost last year's Wimbledon and US Open finals).  The other two were Henin (29 and retired again) and Stosur (27).

The only "new" contenders have been older players who improved their game.  It feels like we're in a gap, waiting for the next dominant player. 

I think that player SHOULD be Kvitova -- so I'll just go ahead and say it will happen and hope she lives up to her potential.  It's unclear to me who her rival(s) will be.  There are any number of young players with potential.  But maybe Li Na and Zvonareva for awhile anyway?  I certainly hope Petko can make it up to competing for slams.  She, too, is starting to make an impression fairly late: she'll be 24 in September.

For comparison's sake, Rafa just turned 25.

Last edited by DonDenman (Jun. 21, 2011 9:43pm)

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Arvis' good point about Woz got me to wondering: "What if?"  So whaddya think, folks?

How many slams would Caroline Wozniacki win if her coach, starting now, were Toni Nadal?

Last edited by DonDenman (Jun. 19, 2011 2:47pm)

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

If Caroline Wozniacki wants to win Grand Slams, she has to change her game plan. Right now, she's a ball-chaser and she's a damn good one at it. But you all saw how Hantachova played in Roland Garros. Her ball striking was superb against Woz.

Ball chasing and trying to force the errors from the opponent will work well in most matches except when you come up against consistent ball strikers. You come across these sort of players in the later stages of Grand Slams. She did alright to come up against Li Na 'down under' - she varied her shots - but I can't forgive her - SHE LOST A MATCH POINT! That was a turning point in the match, she pretty much broke down. Maybe the mental thing is something that affects the way she plays.

She might do well in the US Open this year if Serena doesn't destroy her opposition. We'll see this Wimbledon.

For Caro to win consistently in Grand Slams, she has to strike the ball better and maybe improve her mental strength. She's still young so I see a good future for her and women's tennis. She still has time to change. I agree with Don, a change of coach might be what she needs though probably not Toni. Nadal will go after her... (ouch)

Last edited by CrossCourt (Jun. 20, 2011 5:31am)

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Sharapova will probably be the main beneficiary of Clijsters, Venus, Serena and Li Na (possibly) retire. She's still young.

I can't wait to see what the future of women's tennis holds for Sharapova and Wozniacki (see my previous post). And, in case you're thinking, NO, I'm not choosing them based on the way they look.

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

I didn't mean to imply that anyone in the world could actually GET Toni Nadal to coach them.  It's just that, to me at least, he's the best tennis coach in the world by a wide margin.  If Woz had a great coach and actually did what she was told, her potential would be nearly unlimited.

Having said that, I willl be amazed if it happens.

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

DonDenman wrote:

Arvis' good point about Woz got me to wondering: "What if?"  So whaddya think, folks?

How many slams would Caroline Wozniacki win if her coach, starting now, were Toni Nadal?

As many as she'll win with her current or any other coach. I don't see the firepower required in her game. She really needs to rely on superior shot placement in big matches when the opponents aren't spraying errors all over the place. Her game would really need to be retooled and her mindset would need to be changed completely. You might see some tangible results from Uncle Toni's coaching in a year or two, but by then she could become so out of it like Nicole Vaidisova.

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Absolutely right that her game needs to be retooled.  First, she needs to get to the gym and gain some strength.  She could also stand to get in better shape and lose the baby fat -- but she's not the only female player of whom that's true, by any stretch of the imagination.   

But, I believe, the hardest part of it would be to change her mindset, since she's been winning by pushing for so long. 

I don't think it's too late for her to make the changes necessary to do all that, but it won't happen.  Her father is never going to cede control to anyone -- and he doesn't see the necessity to do any of these things as far as I can tell.  Hence the rhetorical question about Toni Nadal.

Rafa didn't have a backhand in '05 but he had a great one by '07.  He didn't have much of a serve in '06 but he did by '08.  You see what I'm getting at here, surely.

Last edited by DonDenman (Jun. 22, 2011 1:18am)

Re: What's happened to the depth in Women's Tennis?

Wozniacki has probably the most potential in the women's game. She just needs a good coach to bring that potential out. Good 1st round win for Woz - interesting to see how she fares in the later stages.

By the way, nice pic change Tono - I'm getting a weird, inexplicable feeling that you're a Sampras fan...