GrandSlamFantasyTennis.com Forum
Where Tennis Fans Discuss All Things Grand Slam!
You are not logged in. Please login or register.
@DonDenman
Actually, Murray beat Rafa at the 2008 US Open and at the 2010 Aussie Open, so he has at least two wins against Rafa in Slams.
Also, Nadal lost in Monte Carlo the first time he played it, when he was like 17. To Coria or someone like that.
-Arvis
Murray has two wins in slams against Rafa, as you say. Rafa beat Murray at the 2007 Australian, 2008 Wimbledon, 2010 Wimbledon and 2011 Roland Garros. So in slams Murray is 2-4 against Rafa, 0-2 against Roger and 0-1 against Nole, having lost all 9 sets against the latter two.
It's also significant to note that Rafa is up 4-0 (9 sets to 1) on clay and 2-0 (6 sets to 0) on grass in all matches with Murray. Rafa is up 5-4 on hard courts, but Murray has won two of the last three. So, as I said, Murray's only realistic chance against Rafa is on hard courts.
Actually, Coria did beat Rafa at Monte Carlo in 2003 when Rafa was 16. Nicely caught. I should have said that on the type and speed of clay found only at RG and Monte Carlo, Rafa has won 13 of the last 14 championships, having lost only one match on that surface since he was 16, and only two in his life. By the way, in 2003 Coria was the best clay court player on earth.
Last edited by DonDenman (Jun. 13, 2011 10:51am)
Heh, your points still stood, I was just being pedantic. 
The year Rafa doesn't win Monte Carlo will be the year people can really start to question him. Until then, he's a favorite at every major.
-Arvis
I suppose there's an outside chance that lightning could strike sometime at Monte Carlo, with a power player getting in the zone and hitting everything in through the entire match.
However, the year that Rafa wins neither Monte Carlo nor RG will be either the year of injury (God forbid) or when his star has waned.
Just to put a final flourish on the '03 Nadal/Coria match at Monte Carlo, let me set the scene, if I may.
Guillermo "El Mago" Coria of Argentina was a rocket on the rise. He was a clay court genius. In '03 he won 5 tournaments, all on clay, and ended the year at #5 in the world with a bullet.
The next year Coria got to #3 and seemed a lock to win RG. He was doing just that, and quite handily, too, in the RG final against Gaston Gaudio (whom Coria owned, as they say) when he developed leg cramps which limited his mobility to the point that Gaudio was able to win. Sadly, Coria's career was short and sporadic, and he retired very young due to injury.
Rafa Nadal was a bit of a different story. His first tour level tournament of '03 was Monte Carlo! This was not only Rafa's second tour level tournament ever, but the first had been a wildcard a year earlier into a small event on his home island of Mallorca. Entering '03 Monte Carlo, Rafa was 1-1 lifetime in ATP tour level events.
So all 16-year-old Rafa did was destroy Karol Kucera (a very good player) 6-1, 6-2, then -- in his 4th career tour level match -- he beat Albert Costa, world #7 and reigning RG champion!!! -- 7-5, 6-3 before going down to Coria 7-6, 6-2. Most folks thought the kid showed some promise.
Last edited by DonDenman (Jun. 13, 2011 8:17pm)
It says a lot about me, I guess, that I turned a thread called "Can Djokovic complete a calendar Grand Slam?" into esoteric information about Nadal's greatness on clay.
Well, gee, folks, all credit goes to
because here we are again, same time THE VERY NEXT YEAR, and we have to ask the same question. So far, I have the same answer, but different.
Last year I wondered whether Nole's game would transfer to grass. We saw that it does. He's no lock to win Wimbledon, but unless Soderling comes back all the way fast, he's one of only 3 with a chance to win IMHO. The other two are called Nadal and Federer. Sure, sure. Lightning could strike. And pigs could fly out of...never mind.
So, it really comes down to
Last year my answer was:
"NO! Are you nuts???"
Now it's:
"Let's see what happens at Monte Carlo. After Rafa wins Monte Carlo again, I'll say: 'NO! Are you nuts???" "
Last edited by Don (Feb. 24, 2012 10:36pm)
LOL.....I was just reading some of our comments back from last year.....my crystal ball was actually in pretty good working order this time last year huh .....I correctly predicted Rafa to win at RG (nothing brillant about that I know) Novak would win Wimbledon (when most were saying no way) and Nole to back it up with a US Open victory too. (I need to find that same crystal ball for this year) 
Can Nole beat Rafa at RG???......Yes he can and I think this might/will be the year he does!!
However Monte Carlo is another story altogether....will Novak even play Monte Carlo??....I'm picking if he doesn't then it's Rafa's to lose but if he does then it still may be on Rafa's racquet anyway....I'm picking Nole might play Madrid and Rome but bypass Monte unless he really wants to try and completely dominate the Spainard and take the title that he practically owns....it's certainly going to be interesting and the main conversation piece as the clay court season gets into full swing after Indian Wells and Miami.
Both guys are extremely fit as we all witnessed in Melbourne but they may both need a full tank of petrol come RG time.
I know Djokovic didn't play Monte Carlo last year and I absolutely do not understand that. He played Rome, which has very fast clay, nothing like anywhere else, totally unto itself. And he played Madrid, for God's sake, on those dreadful excuses for courts at altitude -- but not Monte Carlo, the only tourney with courts anything like RG (exactly like RG to be precise). Whazzup with that???
So if he repeats that move, which makes no sense, then we really will have no RG preview and we'll all be just guessing about RG.
Based on what I've seen so far this year from Dragan and BHP, I'd say you better get that crystal ball in top working order if you want to have a chance, Tony.
Last edited by Don (Feb. 25, 2012 10:29am)
Yeah my crystal ball has a few cracks appearing in it this year
Still I love the challenge and the competition keeps getting tougher which can only be a good thing....I'm sitting ok overall in the Yoda Guru race at this stage but RG is the Slam that is historically my achilles heel especially in the women's matches so if I can get through that tourney in reasonable shape then I will be happier. 
Not sure what the reason is for Nole bypassing Monte Carlo....he resides there so he could go home and chill while he plays the tournament, that makes more sense huh!
If he doesn't play it again then it can only be a strategic or scheduling decision with his team I guess?? 
I think Djokovic must be doing this for strategic purposes. He knows that playing on these other clay surfaces that are not similar conditions to RG would not give Nadal much of a chance to prepare for an encounter at RG. Trying to keep that slight sliver of doubt in Nadal's head. Then again, I don't think Rafa has to make any changes in his game to have a very strong chance of winning it again this year. I do think Nadal needs to get his mentality back that has made him successful over the years. He has lost that mentality against Djokovic, but it will take a monumental effort from Djoko to win best of 5 over Nadal at Nadal's playground.
But let's get real, we were a drop shot away from Federer making last years French Open Final very interesting. He is the second best clay court player at the moment in my opinion until someone (Djokovic) can give me a reason to say otherwise.
The biggest development leading to RG should be: Will Roger get to #2. If this happens, we have a 50/50 shot at a Djokovic/Nadal Semifinal.
Last edited by the_lost_scot (Mar. 22, 2012 4:28pm)
That's a really interesting thought, Scotty. That had not occurred to me, but it does make sense not to let Rafa see enough on that surface to figure out how to improve his chances. He is notorious for doing just that. Take Wimbledon for instance. Or the U.S. Open. He changes his game to make it work better on different surfaces and against different players. So try to prevent that. Smart.
Also, I sincerely doubt that Fed can pass Rafa before RG. Roger needs to win Miami to have any kind of a realistic chance of doing that, I think. Thanks to Nole, Rafa has only one championship to defend before RG: Monte Carlo. I like his chances to repeat yet again, and especially so if Nole is absent. So Rafa will have to lose in the semis or earlier to lose any points in Miami, Rome and Madrid. I don't see Roger making up many points on clay. He needs to beat Nole and Rafa in Miami to have a shot at #2 IMO.
Last edited by Don (Mar. 23, 2012 9:42am)
Monte Carlo will be VERY interesting this year guys.....Nole is down to play as is Andy Murray, in fact all of the Top 10 are entered with the exception of Fed & Mardy Fish so that tournament could be a real beauty.....and it will give us some early pointers for RG too I'm guessing.
Yes, it will. Both very interesting and a preview of RG, as always. Don'tcha love it? For me, the clay court season is what tennis is all about. It's the reason I love the sport.
Don't get me wrong. I utterly despise actually playing on the surface, you understand. Hate it. But the very reasons I hate it are what make it such a profound and riveting test of the mettle of men. Dig it!!! It's for real.
There are always a couple of dirtball guys who jump up from out of nowhere behind a cloud of red dust and shock the hell out of everyone. In 2003 a skinny unknown 16-year-old from Mallorca beat reigning RG champ Albert Costa, for instance. ;-D
(well, OK, a skinny, unknown 16-year old kid with a gigantic left biceps who could wrestle gators all day)
And let us not forget the arrival, death & rebirth of Filipo Volandri in all its various incarnations! It wouldn't surprise me if he makes the quarters at 45.
Who will it be this year???
Last edited by Don (Mar. 23, 2012 6:32pm)
About the clay court tennis.
If I have to choose I would say that I least love the clay court tennis.Hard courts are my favourite!
But I agree that the clay court season always bring some low rank player(clay court specialist) who can make some surprises.Not so much in the last couple of years,but I still remember Medvedev playing RG final with Agassi,or what about Verkerk from Holand who lost his RG final to Ferero.And it's nice to have it mixed up,hard-clay-grass-hard.It makes the season and the sport even more interesting.
You've gota love it!
Yes, you do. Though an extra week between RG & Wimby would be a very good move IMO. Of course, folks have been saying this for decades and it hasn't happened yet.
I said how the clay court tennis is the one that I love the least if I had to choose.But I forgot to say how much I love to watch the Roland Garros.Really looking forward to that great tournament.
Last edited by Dragan (Mar. 28, 2012 4:54am)
Clay court tennis IS a ton of fun to watch.
Yoda Cup will make RG that much more fun!
-Arvis
I said it last year and I'll say it again, Novak will not win the calendar 'Slam. I still feel like Fed can beat him whenever they play (although I stick by my claim that Fed will not win another major) and common sense would say Nadal will find a way to beat him in a 'Slam sooner or later (most likely on Nadal's playground, RG). Also, I am with the analysts who have said Murray will win a 'Slam for years now. I felt like he should've won that match against Novak at the Aussie, but he tightened up at crucial moments. He has the game, it's just about the belief with him.
I feel like Novak will walk away with 3 'Slams again when the year is over, but I want to say someone else will take either Wimby or the US Open from him. Maybe Murray will finally ride the crowd at Wimbledon to a championship or Nadal will figure Novak out. Maybe Berdych, Tsonga or Del Po will have an amazing run or something, IDK.
If Murray wins Wimbledon, then I will be one of many people in tears of joy. But will that ever happen? Probably not.
I'm unlike most here who enjoy Clay the most. It is just too slow for me. Doesn't put as much emphasis on the shotmaking as it does the point construction/grinding. But to each their own.
I miss Robin Soderling, the one man who could truly hit straight through the clay like it was no obstacle.
Last edited by the_lost_scot (Apr. 5, 2012 2:02am)
Yeah, I wonder if Soderling will ever come back.
-Arvis
If Murray wins Wimbledon, then I will be one of many people in tears of joy. But will that ever happen? Probably not.
I'm unlike most here who enjoy Clay the most. It is just too slow for me. Doesn't put as much emphasis on the shotmaking as it does the point construction/grinding. But to each their own.
I miss Robin Soderling, the one man who could truly hit straight through the clay like it was no obstacle.
Berdych has hit through the clay fairly well the last couple of years and there's no reason why a healthy Del Po can't hit through it. I do miss Soderling, though. He is a quirky guy and a character to say the least.
Only Federer managed to play through mono and recover fully in a matter of months.
No wonder the guy's never injured. He's made out of titanium or something.
I'll miss Soderling, too, though he's more a guy I love to hate than anything else (like Berdych, but less so -- interesting to realize that). I do think Soderling had considerably more power off the ground than Berdych, but Delpo is the hammer man, even compared to Robin. He hits harder consistently off both sides than anyone ever.
Last edited by Don (Apr. 5, 2012 6:02pm)
High Forehand: I think Le Sod hits harder. Just as the clay accentuates Nadal's heavy topspin strokes, the clay sets up Soderling's ungodly amount of power when the ball is up high. Hence his success at RG. It is no fluke he has some big wins here.
Rally Shots (mid to low): Del Potro hits much harder since Soderling is much more conservative on these balls.
So ultimately yes, Del Potro is the most powerful player overall, but if you give Le Sod a ball high in the strike zone, it is OVER. DONE. FINISHED.
Berdych isn't in the same league as these two as far as power off the ground.
Last edited by the_lost_scot (Apr. 5, 2012 6:53pm)
Brilliant analysis, Scotty. Totally agree. Nothing to add.
Hello Guys.
I'm new here, Thomas gave me the link to the site. Some of you might know me from Fantasy Tennis Tour .
I think clay is really nice to watch, much more tactics, you have to dig so deep to win a single point. That's why Rafa's been the best Clay court player for the past 7 years.
Honestly, I don't think Novak will win at RG this year. I still think Roger is by far the 2nd best Clay court player behind Rafa (like the_lost _scot said). Rafa is really the only one who's got the edge against the swiss on clay.
If Rafa's 100%, I don't think he can lose unless against a 110% Djokovic . But Rafa seems to have a knee problem and if he's not 100% who knows what can happen. You guys also mentioned it, Roger an overtake Rafa at n°2. Before RG, Nadal has 2700 points (in fact a bit less because he still has DC to add if he doesn't do that well) to defend whereas Roger only has 630. So if we get à Nole - Rafa Semifinal I think Roger has a decent shot at the title.
But let's not forget about Murray who's IMO the most improved player on clay last year. Lendl might just give him what he needs to win RG. He has a good game on clay.
For the other players, I think Del Potro is always a threat. Ferrer is a serious underdog and can beat Murray or a top3 in a bad day. And John Isner seems to be incredible on clay. That's a surprise for me but the surface seems to suit him pretty well, he has the time to move and go for his shots. I wouldn't be surprise if he goes deep at RG this year (QF).
Posts [ 26 to 50 of 154 ]
